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What if you could live longer, age slower, and glow from the inside out without chasing fads or fighting your body?

In this illuminating conversation, I sit down with Jiaming Ju, a Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner and researcher who reveals how ancient Chinese wisdom can heal your body, balance your emotions, and awaken your natural vitality.

Born in China and now practicing in the West, Jiaming bridges two worlds, ancient healing and modern science, to show us that longevity isn’t luck or genetics… it’s rhythm, awareness, and daily choices.

Together, we unpack how your energy systems shape everything from your skin and sleep to your hormones and mood. You’ll learn why prevention (not treatment) is the secret to graceful aging, and how simple rituals like mindful eating, herbal support, and deep rest can restore your body’s natural harmony.

If you’ve ever felt curious about how to heal at the root, or you’re craving more energy, balance, and radiance, this episode is your invitation to experience medicine as art, energy, and deep remembrance.

About Jiaming Ju

Jiaming Ju is a Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner and wellness educator known for her integrative approach to healing. Trained in both Eastern and Western medical sciences, she helps people reconnect with the body’s innate intelligence and create vibrant health through natural rhythms, ancient wisdom, and modern insight.

In this episode we chat about:

• How Jiaming discovered Traditional Chinese Medicine (2:43)
• The science behind “energy” and why it’s more real than you think (5:43)
• What TCM actually is (and how it can transform your health) (6:51)
• The biggest myths about Chinese medicine (8:17)
• How TCM heals your hormones, skin, sleep, and stress (9:08)
• Why acupuncture and herbs are a beauty-and-balance powerhouse (10:22)
• The surprising link between emotion, energy, and aging (12:03)
• How to support your kids’ health naturally with Chinese medicine (13:24)
• The energetic side of belief and mindset in healing (16:17)
• How to find a truly gifted TCM practitioner (18:19)
• Practical ways to spot trusted experts (22:12)
• The daily habits that slow aging and boost vitality (23:08)
• Why TCM treats imbalance before illness ever appears (26:09)
• The secret connection between sleep and longevity (30:53)
• Healing postpartum and hormonal sleep challenges naturally (32:57)
• The food–emotion connection and how stress affects digestion (38:31)
• Simple rituals to calm your nervous system (42:04)
• Nourishing routines for mothers and busy women (43:21)
• The one book Jiaming believes everyone should read (48:11)

Episode resources:

• Mastering Your Mean Girl by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Open Wide by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Comparisonitis by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Time Magic by Melissa Ambrosini and Nick Broadhurst (book)
• Jiaming Ju (Instagram)
• Kun Health (website)
• The I Ching or Book of Changes by Richard Wilhelm (book)

Prefer To Read?

The following transcript has been automatically generated and not checked for accuracy.

Melissa: [00:00:00] The Melissa Ambrosini Show. Welcome to the Melissa Ambrosini Show. I’m your host, Melissa bestselling author of Mastering Your Mean Girl, open, wide, comparisonitis and Time Magic. And I’m here to remind you that love is sexy, healthy is liberating, and wealthy isn’t a dirty word. Each week I’ll be getting up close and personal with thought leaders from around the globe, as well as your weekly dose of motivation so that you can create epic change in your own life and become the best version of yourself possible.

Are you ready? Beautiful. Hey, beautiful. Welcome back to the show. I’m so excited about this episode because I love traditional Chinese medicine. I love Eastern Medicine. I am a huge fan of all of the alternative ways to take care of ourself. I have been into Chinese medicine for over [00:01:00] a decade. I’ve been seeing an acupuncturist and getting Chinese herbs.

It’s helped me in my pregnancies. It’s helped me postpartum and everything in between, and I cannot believe for one of the top health and wellness podcasts in the world, I have not had someone on to talk about traditional Chinese medicine. But today is the day my friend, and I’m so excited to have Xin J on the show.

Now. She runs Kun Health alongside her father, who is a master in traditional Chinese medicine. She went from leading the world’s largest data collection on senior adults to joining her father in his decades long mastery of traditional Chinese medicine, infusing her expertise on aging data and economics.

Together they help people live healthier lives and preserve Chinese heritage. Now for everything that we mention in today’s episode, you can check out in the show notes, and that’s over@melissaambrosini.com slash [00:02:00] 6 7 7. And without further ado, let’s dive in.

Germaine, welcome to the show. I’m so excited to have you here. But before we dive in, can you tell us what you had for breakfast this morning? 

Jiaming: That is such an interesting way to start a podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I had two boiled eggs, one cup of coffee with I believe cinnamon in it. I made my own cafe, dea, and then I had a slice of sourdough with avocado on it, and I think I had also half of an orange.

Mm. I love it. 

Melissa: Now you have such an interesting story. Your father has decades behind him mastering traditional Chinese medicine. I have never had anyone on the podcast. I’m at almost 700 episodes and I’ve never had anyone come on and talk [00:03:00] about traditional Chinese medicine, and I personally am in love with it.

I have been getting acupuncture and having herbs for about a decade. So I’m so excited that you are here because you have a very unique story on how you got into this. Your father is a master in traditional Chinese medicine, so can you tell us a little bit of the backstory on how you got to where you are today?

Jiaming: I got to where I am today out of anger. That’s really the easy way to say it and completely honest. I have been a health economist for a decade and longer. Not many people know this, but I worked for an economist. I ran one of the world’s largest longevity think tank in Singapore, actually. And then before that I was in New York City.

So economics really, and data, you know, data-driven science has been very much so dominated my adult life. But then COVID hit, I think I just moved [00:04:00] back to the states at that point and I was thinking, you know what? It was fun being an economist and all of that. But let’s be honest, like who wanna be an economist when you retire?

Right? None of the retirement village wanna have an economist. I can’t help you predict a stock market. You know, we’re as good as being useless. Also, at that point, I realized I saw something on the internet where. I can’t remember where the company was from, but it was kind of doing something in Guha. The owner of the company had nothing and no background in Chinese medicine.

I was really mad because they were not doing it correctly. I called my father and he calmly just said, he said, you are not allowed to be mad. You have nothing to do with Chinese medicine, although you grew up in the business. And that really stunned me because then I was like, you know what? I’m going to turn this anger into action.

I will redo four years of training in Chinese medicine. And my father was shocked. He was like, you are no longer a spring chicken. You are [00:05:00] in your, you know you are. You’re not in your twenties anymore and you have a stunningly good career in economics. Why? I’m like to prove to you that I was born in this family business and I’m born to do this.

And fast forward, here we are now. 

Melissa: I love that. And I think it’s also really inspiring that you essentially started over, what were you in your thirties? Yeah. And that’s considered late. There is no late, like there are people that are finding their thing in like their seventies and I just love this and I just wanna highlight that because it’s never too late, late to late start something new to learn something new, to go back to school.

So I love that so much. So what has surprised you the most about stepping into this role and merging the modern data with this ancient tradition? 

Jiaming: What shocked me was how fun it is. You know, my job used to be [00:06:00] traveling around the world, talking to politicians, showing them the data, and persuade ’em to change their policy a certain way.

Frankly, you know, uh, people, politics came first, data came second. Like policymaking was frustrating at best, right? It was a fun job, but you never feel what impact you really made. And it wasn’t always fun doing the consultation, transforming people’s life because most of the patients who come to us are, they have autoimmune, they have symptoms that western medicine simply cannot explain.

But, you know, in western medicine, we’ve known it for decades. That decades, I mean, thousands of years. It’s fascinating. I get to listen to people’s stories. I get to help them transform is, is glorious. So it’s so fun, and I didn’t anticipate this much of fun. 

Melissa: I love it. So for someone who’s listening, they’re like, what is traditional Chinese medicine?

What is it? 

Jiaming: I think the best way to describe Chinese medicine [00:07:00] is that Chinese medicine help you to empower your own abilities to heal, right? Instead of western medicine, which says, well, unless you take this pill, Melissa, you’re never gonna get better. Then you become a servant to the pill. You’re always under belt.

The minute you stop taking the pill, nothing changed. You go back to zero, then what’s the point of the pill? Chinese medicine is about utilizing herbs or acupuncture to really help you to find your own abilities within you and the power to re imbalance, to achieve that balance again. And once you’re balanced, your symptoms, you are healed.

Your symptoms are no longer there mentally and physically. So that’s what Chinese medicine is about. It’s about really rediscovering your own powers in a way. 

Melissa: I love it so much. I used Chinese medicine through my pregnancies and post-pregnancy, and I in particular found it very helpful [00:08:00] during pregnancy.

And you know, I had two very beautiful home water births and you know, I feel like it’s a combination of lots of things that I did, but I just feel like Chinese medicine is so powerful and so many people can benefit from it. What are the biggest misconceptions about traditional Chinese medicine in the West?

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. 

Jiaming: I think there is a lot of misconceptions. I think there is, historically, in America in particular, there is a lot of racism against, you know, the medicine. There is a lot of confusion, right? There is a lot of saying, oh, if you use Chinese medicine that means you’re using deer antler, you’re using something illegal.

You’re using like endangered animal parts. There is a lot of misconception in terms of how does the formula actually come about instead of western medicine, which simply suppresses your symptoms. Like if this is about empowering your only abilities to heal, how does one do that? Right? I [00:09:00] think so.

Confusion, breed misconception, and then misconception breeze a bunch of things. So that’s definitely, those are just a few. 

Melissa: What can Chinese medicine help with? 

Jiaming: A bunch of things now, personally at Quinn, and because I mainly see patients in the United States and also a lot of patients in Europe, we predominantly work on what other people cannot treat.

So there will be a lot of autoimmune conditions, which have been all over the place in the United States, I’m sure in Australia as well, and also in continental Europe. A lot of long COVID, a lot of bad reactions after vaccines, not just vaccines of all kind. Not to say that there is anything wrong with vaccine that simply just the symptoms that we help with.

There are a lot of. Challenging infertility, meaning that they have gone through rounds of IVFs with no success, repetitive miscarriage, and one of my personal favorite mental health [00:10:00] issues. So we work a lot on patients who have chronic fatigue and patients who have really debilitating depression while not responding to your traditional formats of antidepressants.

So a lot of mental issues combined with, you know, physical issues as well. 

Melissa: Hmm. So pretty much everything? 

Jiaming: Yes. Good. The puzzles, I would say. 

Melissa: So do you find that the combination of the acupuncture and the herbs is like a highway to healing and longevity and health? Or do you feel like you could just do the acupuncture or just do the herbs, or do you feel like them together is just like a powerhouse?

Jiaming: I think it depends on the condition. Personally, I do not do acupuncture. I am licensed, but I don’t do acupuncture. Most of my patients are not necessarily suitable for acupuncture. I see acupuncture as a sprinkling where herbal formula, especially [00:11:00] when it’s done right, it’s like a house renovation. It’s completely different projects.

So I mean, w if you have, let’s say if someone has gone through like eight rounds of IVF and still no success, and now you are end up, you end up with all these issues. This is not something necessary. Acupuncture help because the acupuncture is really about. It’s a little bit like the physical therapy part of Chinese medicine.

It is really about, you already have this in your body that’s kind of reorganized, have a deep clings, and let’s move this chair to the outer room and move this table here. But ultimately, if you’re incredibly deficient, it’s not necessarily the most useful method to use acupuncture. And where herbal formula has always been the elitist form of Chinese medicine, like I’m thinking about in the Imperial Chinese days, where you will have a royal hospital of all these physicians and most of them will use customized herbal formulation that has historically has been really the [00:12:00] hardest way in Chinese medicine and also the most effective.

Melissa: And what about aging and longevity? I’d love to hear like, have you seen amazing things in that space? 

Jiaming: Well as one of the world’s youngest longevity economists, because in my field, believe it or not, is usually everybody over the age of 65 and then me looking like this because I’m an expert in studying longevity data.

It’s funny, coming from that world and then to the Chinese medicine world, Chinese medicine is incredible for longevity. I don’t think our approach is the same as the buzzwords of the day biohacking, right? It’s not about hacking, but it’s really about optimizing your quality of life, which if we consider the harder questions when it comes to longevity, right?

We’re considering mobility health for one, we’re considering like digestive health, we’re considering chronic fatigue, psoriasis, all these other [00:13:00] issues. What is little talked about is really how to optimize one’s daily functionality. And that’s what Chinese medicine excels at. And I do a lot because for my patients, the age group, the youngest patient I have seen in my clinic at two and a half, and the oldest historically has been, I think she was 80, 80 years old.

So it’s a large range of people. 

Melissa: Wow. Okay. Let’s just talk about the two and a half year old and, and using Chinese medicine for children. Talk to us about that. I know a lot of people might think, oh, can we do that with our kids? I’d love to hear your thoughts like. What do you recommend? 

Jiaming: Chinese medicine should not, especially on children historically, has been very tricky.

And it is tricky because children enter the age of six, unless it is absolutely, this is absolutely a dire situation. We usually do not recommend intervention with Chinese medicine. In this particular case, the kid was the word, I’m [00:14:00] borrowing the word in western medicine, he was labeled as failure to thrive AKA.

His weight was constantly under. He was allergic to a thousand things he can eat and therefore he cannot gain weight. There was really bad eczema and it was really a pretty dire situation. And also he had very, he had no control over the urination, so it was, it was a very dire situation in a way that you can’t get food in because he was allergic to a thousand things and therefore his weight count.

So that’s the reason why the parents approached us. I think basically, I can’t recall the exact formula, but this must be done by someone who has incredible experience in treating P pediatrics issues. And the, this specific child was with us for two batches of formula and he was basically fine. He can’t eat everything and he’s fine and off he goes, because I don’t, and I put him on a very, very low dosage.

It was like one six of the dosage of what I [00:15:00] usually give to adults, and he was fine. You just, because the thing about children when it’s done right, is that they heal so much faster than adults. That’s a very good question. I think kids before, historically in Chinese medicine, if you treat a child, I mean, of course, only when it’s a dire situation like this.

If you treat a child, usually it doesn’t take that long because they, they’re still young, they’re more moldable. All you need to do is to bring them back to the balance a little bit and they’re good to go. Where if they. I have a lot of teenager patients as well, and then you will see that’s also faster in often cases compared to, let’s say, somewhat in their fifties.

However, that comes with its own burdens, right? They have their life experience. And most importantly, most interestingly in America, I don’t think this is the case, probably in other countries, a lot of teenagers in this country are put on antidepressant and on A DHD medication, a lot of medication at that age around 15, 16, or [00:16:00] 17.

So, or even birth control pills. So they’re already have experienced the power of pharmaceuticals at that point. So readdressing that, it’s also fine, but it is just not gonna be as straightforward as, let’s say, a 10 years old who has never been on, you know, pharmaceuticals. So. 

Melissa: I’m also thinking maybe they heal so much faster because as adults we have so many limiting beliefs, so many stories.

Like there’s that side of thing too. You know, like they don’t necessarily like, do I believe in this? Do I not believe in this? They just are there, you know what I mean? They don’t have as much baggage, emotional baggage. And I’m just wondering if that maybe plays a part. 

Jiaming: I think for younger kids, for sure, for teenagers in America, I don’t know.

They seem more burdened than we are and I don’t blame that. Right. In today’s world. But yeah, I mean, you know, in Chinese medicine for, for for male, for biological male, your health milestone is once every eight years. So a lot of boys, when [00:17:00] they turn 16, you start having minor, you know, health issues.

Depending, especially if you have been on a DHD medication, for example, for a little bit, by then you likely will have a worse digestive health where for girls it’s more 14 years old. So you will start seeing around puberty. That’s when, depending on how their first period goes, they will start developing certain issues.

So it’s, it’s, you know, we have, we treat different people differently and that’s why at Quinn, like we are deeply customized, like we write everyone’s formula each time. 

Melissa: I love that it’s very individualized, very specific to that person, that person’s constitution, that person’s and what that person’s going through, which I love for me.

I am always going to, whenever it comes to anything with myself or my family, my children, I’m always going to go to the holistic option first. I’m always going to look at Ayurveda or [00:18:00] Homeopathics, or naturopathy or Chinese medicine. I’m always going to go to the natural thing first because I believe in it.

I have seen it work miracles for myself, for my family, so I’m always going to go there first because Mother Nature is just so powerful. How do we find a good practitioner? Because I’m sure there are amazing practitioners out there, and I’m sure there may not be. So how do we be discerning with this? Like, how do we know if someone is an amazing Chinese medicine practitioner or maybe not?

Jiaming: Well, I think it’s up to what you’re looking for if you’re looking for a acupuncturist. Acupuncture is very learnable because it’s based on anatomy, so it’s everyone’s, I always say that it’s like if you wanna look for a good, decent acupuncturist, it’s not going to be difficult. Read up reviews, make sure they have the right [00:19:00] license.

It’s not gonna be difficult to be an exceptional acupuncturist. Usually one has to be second generation or even third generation is the same thing. And it it is, but it is in particular when it comes to herbal formula. Because herbal formula, and we at EQU only do customized herbal formula. We never prescribe standard if herbal formula can be done.

Right. You said so yourself. It can be absolutely miraculous. If herbal formula is done wrong, it could basically shift one way to the other, right? Like everything in life. So I would say at least in the United States, is very difficult to find people who have extensive experience in customized herbal formulation.

And that is historical because herbal formulation is more widely practiced in Asia. It has to, one’s ability has to go with the number of patients you have, and also family lineage. So [00:20:00] for example, my father has on average 40 patients a day. And he has doing this for 45 years. That is a lot of numbers. 

Melissa: How does he actually fit that many people in a day?

Jiaming: Well, because in in China and Korea, and to a certain extent in Japan, when you see patients, it’s not like the same as the way I do it in America, which takes an hour. They do it more efficiently. There is the longer culture there. You gotta know, I mean, you gotta realize that Chinese medicine has been around for almost 5,000 years.

People are like, everybody is what people go to first, right? Before they really. Resort to Western Medicine intervention in many cases, you know, even when there is Western intervention, there is usually Chinese intervention at the same time. So it’s more familiar to people. The practice is very different.

It’s not the same level of education one needs to give. So I grew up in a family business. It’s very normal for me to see, you know, I come home from school and I would see all these people queing up in the snow [00:21:00] waiting to get into my desk clinic. It’s hilarious. But yeah, I mean, and also, but that it’s not just to me, at the time I thought, oh my God.

I mean, I do know how famous my father is, but like at the same time I was like, this is hilarious. I just wanna see my dad, you know? To me, he’s just my dad. But now I’m older and we work closely together. We co-write everyone’s formula together. I’ve always known this, but like working with him is really like, you realize how much heart and how much passion it goes into a formula.

A lot of patients, you know, my patients all know that it takes a while ’cause we have to discuss their case in Mandarin. We will disagree. You might have, you might, one person might have menopausal symptoms, the other one might, your root cause might be completely different. It’s not all the same. And that’s why we’re so effective in addressing very interesting disorders because, you know, we take the time and it not only that, like I would like to say it’s a lot of data.

I [00:22:00] mean he saw what 40 patients a day and 45 years and he is one of the first doctors in China that starts using digital patient file and case studies. That is a lot of numbers. 

Melissa: So if we are wanting to find someone in our local area, what should we look for? 

Jiaming: I’m not so sure about Australia, but usually there should be a association of Chinese medicine or acupuncture, and there has to, there is a list and including myself, you can basically check the doctor’s full name on there, and then there will be the license, or you can put in your own address.

It will show you who is in your nearby area. I would say that if you’re simply looking for an acupuncturist, that is really the best way forward. You know, find a few people close to you and read the reviews, but when it comes to customized herbal formulation is a lot trickier. 

Melissa: Yeah. So interesting. And I think also your intuition, you know, really listen to your [00:23:00] intuition.

If your intuition is like, Hmm, this doesn’t feel right, then maybe listen to that because your intuition, you know, really does know. So what are some of the principles and some of the practical daily habits that truly make a difference in how long and well we live? 

Jiaming: Well, I think number one, you know it’s interesting, when I was a house economist, longevity economist, I would go to these major conferences and you have everybody asking what does the research say?

Frankly, the most solid thing we can say, there are three things. Number one, no alcohol. Number two, exercise will do you better than anything. And three, get plenty of sunshine. Anything other than these are not backed by longitudinal studies, which means like nothing. You probably randomly plug a data at a certain point, but it’s not like a [00:24:00] long-term study that can really a hundred percent say confirm it.

Right? But these three things are really fundamental. And what’s interesting, we see a lot in Chinese medicine, especially with the last one getting plenty of sunshine, is that there are, I always ask someone where they are from. The reason is because a lot of conditions in Chinese medicine are deeply influenced by how much sunshine you can get based on where you are.

So for example, a lot of my patients from Scandinavia or even the Netherlands tend to have situation like certain autoimmune skin situations more likely than people from other parts of the world because there is lack of sunshine and there is the cold rain, dampness, et cetera, right? California, where I am is more dry, is very sunny.

People think it’s great, but because it’s too sunny, it has too much heat, too much fire. Our infamous fires season, for [00:25:00] example, it is more damaging for people. So if you live in California, you have menopause, likely your symptoms are going to be a little bit more serious. Compared to someone from another parts of the world.

And also dry cough or road rage are more manifested issues for people living in California because this is because California has a very strong gold element and gold is related to the long. So a lot of immunity issues are more common In California, for example, like uh, allergy issues, auto, certain autoimmune issues are more common if you have lived in California.

And this is not something necessarily western medicine consider, but very much so in Chinese medicine we always consider this, that you as your little universe, as we call it better you, how well you adapt to the outside environment matters when it comes to especially chronic conditions. 

Melissa: Super interesting.

I love that. And I love those [00:26:00] three things. So no alcohol moving every day and plenty of sunshine. I love that. I’m like, tick, tick, tick. I do those three things. So that’s great. So how does TCM approach prevention and maintaining homeostasis in the body before the illness shows up? 

Jiaming: What’s interestingly there is a fundamental difference between Chinese medicine and western medicine.

Western medicine hasn’t been around for that long. I don’t think most people realize is based on ca is based on anatomy, is based on, like my father would like to call it bluntly dead people. Right? Your is based on what you can see on a body. It takes a long time for someone to get cancer and because it takes a long time for someone to get, you know, psoriasis, is it possible that due to certain issues or maybe it’s genetic, you suddenly got it?

Sure. But disease take a long time to form. So prevention is very [00:27:00] doable, but most of us don’t do it. In many cases in Chinese medicine, this is when knowing your body constitution comes to play, right? For example, yesterday I had a patient whose generational body constitution is such that they’re more prone to have a cardiovascular disease, the sudden kind that you might suddenly die from.

And there are many people in the family, you know, who have similar conditions in the younger generation, because I see the whole family, you can already see they’re starting to show certain heart palpitations or chest tightness and issues, right? So in Chinese medicine we see that very much so as you already have functionality issues with the heart where if you go to check your EKG to go to the western doctor, they will just say, you are anxious, please take some antidepressant and go home.

Because none of the machines are able to capture it. And this makes sense because even in my old job as a health economist, the longevity economists. [00:28:00] Data has to stick for a very long time for you to show patterns. So the important thing is I encourage, first off, everyone to talk to your parents. Really truly know the family medical history.

And you’ll be surprised at how many people don’t talk to their parents about this and nobody even knows. It’s very important to you talk to your parents and know the family history of what are your tendency disease, including things like if your mother started menopause at the age of 51, then that should be the marker that you should mark yours 

Melissa: even if you live very different lifestyles.

I’m curious. 

Jiaming: It is so important because genetics matter, so that should, even if you have completely different styles, sure. But you are still your parents, half of your mom and half of your dad. So their health. Will still impact yours. So that doesn’t mean you definitely will have it, but will will mean, for example, if there [00:29:00] is history of breast cancer, for example, in a family, the chances of let’s say someone having ble breast cancer, if your their mom has it, is higher.

And that is both the case in Chinese medicine and in statistical health economics. So it’s very important first thing, talk to your parents, know what they have or what are the family tendencies. And second, really take care to monitor every on and off symptoms because like you said, prevention in the early stages, there are symptoms.

It’s just that you didn’t realize they are actually important, right? So a lot of people wake up and they feel, oh, I have heart palpitations. Or sometime after running you’re like, oh, that chest tightness. And you’re like, oh, but it’s just one-off. Those are not one-offs. Those are your hearts telling you that it’s stressed out when it’s not supposed to be stressed out.

So it’s very important for people to understand the family history and then be more aware of these [00:30:00] health signs. And I would say the third thing is, please do not overload your cabinet with supplements, especially if you don’t know that are there helping you. If anything, they’re only overburdening your liver and that’s never good.

Melissa: So interesting. And I was just thinking those little whispers, you know, the little niggles, the anxious feeling or the heart palpitations, like they’re very easy to just ignore and sweep under the carpet. But we do really need to look at every single one of those and go, Hey, that’s interesting. Maybe I’m gonna chat to somebody about that.

Maybe I’m going to investigate that because they are little whispers from your body. You don’t wanna get to the point where your body is then screaming at you. I’ve been there and it’s not fun. And so let’s all listen to those little whispers that our body might be telling us. And I’d love to hear your thoughts on lifestyle factors like sleep and stress and food.

How does this play [00:31:00] into extending both the years and the quality of our life? From a Chinese medicine perspective, 

Jiaming: sleep is super fundamental. I mean, everybody agrees on this, but what’s interesting, I think for women in particular, it is the most important thing that wolf hasten your aging. At night is when the yin essence, AKA, the good hormones, the the moisture and all of that starts forming.

If you don’t have good quality of sleep, you are going to have dryness faster. You’re going to have more likely going to have hormonal issues. You’re more likely to have a restless state of mind. The reason is also because sleep has a lot to do with the heart and heart In Chinese medicine, different from western medicine, actually is responsible number one, for complex brain activity and also is responsible for that.

That [00:32:00] peace, right? That peaceful of mind that we all desire and we usually say that the spirit hides the spirit houses in the heart. So if there is no sleep, there is no good mental wellbeing, you’re gonna always willing to feel like more restless. This is the reason why chronic inso people usually have a heart palpitation.

They can feel it. It’s either a heart pounding before going to bed or after not sleeping. And the next day, you know, we all have those early flights incidents where you can’t sleep the night before because you’re worried you’re gonna miss the flight. And then you get up in the morning not sleeping, and you can hear your heart almost pounding in your ears.

That is not good yet. Most of the time, you know when people are younger, a lot of folks feel, I have to work at night. I must burn the midnight oil. There is literally nothing that will kill your health faster than burning the midnight oil. So sleep is fundamentally important. Please prioritize it 

Melissa: before we go to food.

Can I just say one thing? [00:33:00] I’m in a season of two little kids. I’m an amazing sleeper. Usually I go to bed early, my body tends to do seven hours and I’ll just naturally wake up after seven hours. I have two kids. They sometimes wake me up. So last night at 2 45, my little boy is teething. He is eight and a half months and he woke up and I was okay.

But sometimes if I get woken up, I have so much adrenaline in my body because I get like shocked awake. I have so much adrenaline, it then takes me sometimes two hours to get back to sleep. This is not ideal. I am not recommending this, but what do I do? 

Jiaming: You know, it’s interesting because this happens to women most likely at two point of adverse, you know, in in adverse stage of health.

One is postpartum and one is [00:34:00] menopause or perimenopause. Because we women need plenty of blood because women menstruate, right? We give birth to children. Those all come from other blood. You breastfeed, breast milk and blood come from the same source. That’s all you are. You are literally like, you know, sacrificing yourself to feed them.

So when you are more likely to be blood deficient, not having enough of blood, you are more likely to be a life sleeper. So this is the reason why, you know, postpartum women, perimenopausal women, menopause women, or even anemic patients are more likely to be those live sleeper, a little noise. And you’re immediately up and you’re like, what is happening?

What is happening? And then often when this happens, one has a high adrenaline where your body goes into this hyper mode and then you’re like, I cannot go to bed. Now. I am literally up and ready and walking around at 2:00 AM so. Yeah, it’s tough. I have kids [00:35:00] also and those midnight coming to say hi.

Situations are not fun. I do not wanna say 

Melissa: hi. I know, and like so much of what I’m doing with my 4-year-old is like educating her on why sleep is so important and it’s so good and she’s usually amazing. But there are times where like he is teething and there’s nothing I can do, but you know, take care of him and breastfeed him and put him back.

But it’s just for me then like the two hours that it takes and then I start getting frustrated and then I start getting anxious and I’m like, I need to go to sleep. I need to go to sleep. I know how good it is for me. So I know it’s also a season of life that I’m in and it’s not forever, but I do have to be honest with you, like it was putting a little bit of fear in me because I know how important sleep is.

I understand. I get it. And so when I was newly postpartum, I was getting really anxious and I had a lot of [00:36:00] fear of like, what is this doing to my body? What is this gonna do to me? And it’s going to age me so much where I didn’t have that with my first. So yeah, I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. 

Jiaming: You know, I don’t really know your labor experience.

It really has a lot to do with a certain pregnancy and usually for women, even when the first is okay, is usually the second that you start feeling the, the anxiety, so to speak. This is because. The, the functionality, the chi that carries the baby is really the, the sling. AKA, the digestion, right? And when you carry the child for the first time, that’s fine, that’s fun.

And the second time is kind of like, okay, now I just like did a double work. Right? And depending on the age gap between the kids sometimes and how easy it was to get pregnant and the labor experience itself, it will make the plexi more deficient depending and when, because digestion is [00:37:00] associated with an emotion that’s called overthinking and anxiety.

So if you are feel like you are having a constant low grade of anxiety, okay, nothing is wrong, but somehow you’re just like, just check in with myself. Is anything, is anything okay? Like that usually happens a lot to postpartum mothers. And that will mean that your spleen, she has been damaged from the birth and.

It will come back naturally in some ways. However, that’s also the reason why for thousands of years in Chinese medicine culture, that people do postpartum Chinese medicine care, right? To kind of try to speed up that healing as quickly as possible. So yeah, so whenever, and in some extreme cases, that’s when you’re gonna feel like I have intrusive thoughts.

I feel like constantly I’m dropping the kid, I’m going to drop the child that is borderline postpartum depression with intrusive thoughts, debilitating anxiety. That is usually when one has to seek help. And we treat that a lot [00:38:00] in at Quinn, for example. 

Melissa: I’ve seen lots of my friends do Chinese medicine postpartum, and it has been so supportive for them physically and mentally, and for me too.

It’s been so powerful. My current Chinese medicine practitioner, she does acupuncture and herbs for me. She is on maternity leave, so I’m like, okay, when are you coming back? No, I’m just joking. She can take as long as she wants, but I kind of need to find somebody else at the moment because she’s on maternity leave, so yeah.

Super interesting. I love all of that. Let’s talk about stress and food now. 

Jiaming: Well, I mean, stress and food is really an interesting one, right? Because in some ways in America, a lot of people, because we live in a much more stressful society, I will always ask patients like, which type are you? Are you the I am stressed, therefore I eat more kind of personality?

Or are you the I am stressed, I do not eat personality? Because depending on your answer, it [00:39:00] means different things in Chinese medicine. But either way, most people in the society associate emotions better, are negatively or in a joyful way with food, right? The issue really, and is that. The fundamental organ that is in charge of negative emotions in the body is the liver, right?

And the liver sits on top of digestion. It’s almost like digestion is the the weakest child, you know, the quietest child in the class and the liver acts like the bully kid who the bully kid comes for. It will always come for the quietest kid. And then so whenever your emotion heightens, let’s say you’re in incredibly stressed, you need a release.

There are two ways for it to go. There is the hyper reaction, which is, I need to put anything I can find in my body. Eat your feelings and therefore feel awful, right? Because [00:40:00] what happens if you do that? You will feel nauseous, you will start hiccuping. Sometimes in some extreme cases, you will start.

Vomiting, right? Eating disorders is another thing that we treat a lot, and this is usually because there is a disharmony between the liver and the digestion. So this is fundamental because the liver not only is responsible for soothing the chi mechanism throughout the whole body to make you feel like relaxed and okay to make you feel safe and to soothe negative emotions in particular, it really is also responsible for kind of like settling the stomach.

So if you’re in a constantly heightened emotional state, you’re not gonna feel your stomach is heightened. This is why like in a lot of cases, right, we have issues. We have a common autoimmune condition in America called irritable bowel syndrome. IBS I’m sure is very common in Australia too, right? You run to the bathroom because you have a presentation, like you have to go on a date, yet you can’t get, you cannot get out of your [00:41:00] bathroom like the bathroom is responsible and ruining every single date you might have.

Right? It’s the emotional factor. And Chinese medicine has known for 5,000 years, the mental state of your head has everything to do with the physical state of your head. And this is nothing new. So it, it amuses me nonstop when I see another study that demonstrates emotion has something to do with physical health, I’m like, really?

Just, you just did it now, like we know it for the longest time. So yeah. So there is very much so with stress and food and it’s a real, real problem, especially given in the Western society. Colon cancer is one of the, I believe, the most common cancer in certain population. So yeah, it’s very much so on the rise in America.

Like we have such a high population of people with IBS and then Crohn’s and then colitis and then like gastritis, like everything and anything you name it will have it. So this is all, [00:42:00] has a lot to do with emotions in particular stress. 

Melissa: Absolutely. Where’s the first place people can start to deal with those emotions and deal with the stress?

Like, what do you recommend? 

Jiaming: I always say, I personally feel that a lot of people have stress because you feel you have no control. So start controlling instead of thinking, I wanna control every, absolutely everything about my life, start controlling the little bit that you actually can control. For example, you can control what time you have breakfast.

Let’s say. If you can start by controlling, you always have breakfast, lunch, and dinner at the same time every day. That is a very important first step. But if I really ask people, not many people do that. You let your work distract you. You let every noise in your life distract you from the most important thing, which is supposed to be.

Go to the bathroom, eat your food, take a shower, taking care of yourself, like sleep, right? But most of the time, most of [00:43:00] us like get the noise of life work, stress distract us, and then before you realize, oh, I haven’t had any food until 4:00 PM in the afternoon, that is your fastest train to get gastritis.

So the first thing is prioritize eating at the same time every day. Simple. 

Melissa: Yeah. It’s so simple and a little thing that will just make such a huge difference to your health. I know for me, and I remember this with my daughter, it happened with her too. I’m not one of those people that go, oh, it’s 4:00 PM and I’ve forgotten to eat.

I’ve never been that person. Like I eat my food and I eat it at the same sort of time each day. However, when I have small children. Usually when you start introducing food like that, six or seven months, I find that I start rushing my food because I’m trying to feed them and I’m doing them and I’m like cleaning them up and then they’re getting agitated and they wanna get out of the chair and I’m scoffing my food and like then my digestion goes completely out the window.

This is not [00:44:00] something I recommend. This is not good. I don’t like it. And I’ve thought about, you know, what can I do to slow myself down? And sometimes I can do this, sometimes I can’t. But like eating my food five minutes, I start five minutes before they start, or I start like a little bit after they’ve finished.

And that has really helped me a lot because then I’m not trying to feed and like he’s getting really agitated that I’m not going fast enough for him. And so then I’m like speeding myself up. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. 

Jiaming: I think this is really a common thing for, for mothers, unfortunately.

Right? But I think the number one thing we all have to realize is that children don’t need as much food as we do. I mean, obviously depending on the age, right? If a kid is under like nine years old, they don’t need as much food as you do for them a lot of the time. You know, they will get full. But at that point, [00:45:00] food is about explore exploration.

You wanna make sure they’re not stressed, because believe it or not, a kid can tell you’re stressed. So if you are stressed full fitting them, they know, mommy want me to finish soon and I’m just not gonna finish soon because just do spider, right? So I think it’s really important to eat in a calmed environment.

And personally, what I utilize is that I, I know what is the most important meal of the day for me is my breakfast. I always. If I can eat breakfast away from my children, I do. I will get up earlier just so I can eat in, in calm rather than Did you finish it? Now we mustache to school. Like they’re not happy.

I’m not happy. No one is happy. Right? But then what I often find is that I give myself, if I do eat wisdom, I will basically, here is your food. You can finish it. You don’t [00:46:00] have to finish it, but ideally you finish it because if you don’t finish it, we’re definitely not having extra snack later before you go to bed, which has happened a few times and they, they know if they don’t finish their food, they’re gonna go hungry after night.

They learn. Okay. I say, I make it sound easy. It’s not easy. It took a lot of screams and a lot of like, I don’t like this, but they learn. So I think the bottom line is we have to take care of ourselves first at some point. You know, I always say the most relat important relationship you have is with our ourself.

And eating in a calm environment is literally the most important thing there is. Other than sleep, this is the most important thing. Because you will then immediately fill it in your gut. 

Melissa: Yes. Oh, and it feels so much nicer when you are in a calm environment. Another thing that has really helped us is we eat dinner usually at five o’clock every night.

We sit down. It’s a beautiful ritual and I noticed that we were starting to [00:47:00] kind of rush it toward the end. ’cause I’m like, Hey, we’ve gotta get ’em in the bath and you know, I don’t want this to drag out all night. And you know, there’s lots of things that we’ve gotta do. I wanna clean up and all these things.

So what we started to do, which has been a game changer for us, is we start at like 10 to five, or even five minutes before five, and that extra five or 10 minutes allows us to really drop into our seat, to not rush our food, to really be present with each other, to enjoy the dinner. And it has been such a game changer, and it’s been such a more pleasant experience in our household because our kids go to bed at seven o’clock, so we’ve gotta eat, we’ve gotta clean up.

We do the bath, we do booby, we do books, we do the whole nighttime routine. There’s a lot that’s gotta be done in that time, but literally starting five or 10 minutes early has been a game changer, an [00:48:00] absolute game changer for us. So borrow that anyone and see how it goes. 

Jiaming: I think time management is really the number one skill from all the parents.

Melissa: Yeah. Yeah. So I’d love to hear now, if you had a magic wand and you could put one book in the school curriculum of every high school around the world, what book would you choose? 

Jiaming: Oh, that’s easy ing the Book of Changes. It is the most difficult book I feel of our time to make sense and to read. I, I speak multiple languages, but even for me, because it was written in ancient Chinese, I had to read one the version in ancient Chinese twice.

The original version was Modern Chinese translation. Once reading it English twice. To have an attempt of understanding the book. I think the book is so instrumental for Chinese medicine and Chinese culture for the fundamental [00:49:00] workings of the world. And you know, every single time you read it, you just get a different interpretation.

It’s the book that you would never get bored of. So yeah, highly recommend. 

Melissa: I love that. I’ll link to that in the show notes. Another reason why I am so passionate about Chinese medicine, why I love it so much. After my daughter, before my son, I had a miscarriage at 10 and a half weeks. I had some spotting.

I went and got a scan and found out that there was no heartbeat. And so I knew that in that moment that I wanted to pass it naturally and I didn’t wanna go and have the surgery and I didn’t wanna do anything like that, didn’t wanna take the medication, I didn’t wanna do anything like that. I just wanted to pass it naturally.

I went and saw a Chinese medicine practitioner that was recommended to me from somebody else. So this was before I’d found my one that I have now. [00:50:00] And she sat me down and she had dealt with miscarriage before and she said to me, gimme three sessions and it will pass naturally. Literally three sessions with her and it passed naturally.

This is what she did. So I did three sessions of acupuncture and she gave me herbs. That is all I did. And two weeks later, exactly two weeks later, so I was 12 and a half weeks, I passed naturally. And I mean, for anyone who’s been through a miscarriage at 12 and a half weeks or at any time, it’s huge. It’s a huge experience.

And that’s just another reason why I am so passionate about Chinese medicine and why I love it, because I knew for me that I just didn’t wanna get the surgery. I didn’t wanna. Go down the western route and Chinese medicine allowed me to pass that naturally. 

Jiaming: I’m sorry to hear that. [00:51:00] It must have been a lot.

What many people don’t know is Chinese medicine and why it does everything related to pregnancy and many more is because the emperor didn’t have one wife. It had many wives and they all had to be pregnant at all time to ensure there were infinite number of, you know, royal babies to be born. So the whole thing of.

Pregnancy, like deal with miscarriage, what to do after hemorrhage, like natural birth. Like all these are like one of the oldest things, Chinese medicine practice on the highest level because if you don’t handle, you know, well of a situation like this by, for a royal concubine, the emperor will have your head.

So it was a lot of practice in the pregnancy department because the emperor was obsessed with children. So, so was ancient China for the longest time. So, yeah, 

Melissa: super interesting. Anyway, I love it. I love Chinese medicine. I wanna hear [00:52:00] about your day. I wanna hear about a typical day in your life. Can you talk us through from when you wake up to when you go to bed, all the little rituals and habits that you do.

Jiaming: Well, if I’m in Los Angeles, what I do usually is that I get up at 6:00 AM in the morning and I do my hygiene and everything, and then I will go downstairs to have my quiet breakfast without my children. So I will purposely wake them up late after I’m already done, and then I prepare their school stuff, supplies and their breakfast for them to come down.

Then it is basically 40 minutes of the usual. You try to basically say, I give you a certain amount of time you eat, and then I drop them off At school. We, we are very lucky in where we are right now, that we will walk them to school and then after I drop them to school, I’ll walk to my office. And although 95% of the time I see patients virtually, there will be, [00:53:00] I still like to work from.

Office. So I will work from my office, usually from, and that is a walk. So by the time I walk to my office, I would already have done like 7,000 steps. And then I get to my office. I will usually journal for what’s important thing to do off the day. I add usually 30 minutes of Spanish there because as a person who is passionate about learning languages, I’m always like learning different languages to also sharpen my brain.

And then I will start my clinic hours and usually I’ll be seeing patients and then, but definitely at 12 o’clock I will pause for my lunch and I never eat at my desk. I usually step out of the office, walk around window shopping, be the nosy Asian auntie that I am, and look around. And usually that’s when I will clock another 2000 or 3000 steps.

Once I finish with my lunch, I come back, back to my office, have a little bit of my time with Ho Chicho, which is my favorite. [00:54:00] Roasted green tea or Ong tea. And then I will journal again for what I need to do in the afternoon and see patients. And usually in the afternoon I see patients in person, especially when I’m in la.

And then later part of the day is usually when my father and I will talk about patient cases, discuss everything, and then finalize patient’s formulation, send to the order. And then by four 30, usually I wrap up and then I walk home, which will take another 5,000 steps, walk uphill home, and then start preparing dinner for my kids.

My husband pick up the kids from school. 

Melissa: How many kids do you have? 

Jiaming: I have two. How old are they? A boy and a girl. Four and six. They’re going to turn five and seven soon. So cute. Yeah. So they will come home, we will hear about their adventures of the day, and we sit down [00:55:00] for lunch. We base them, and then reading time, we usually do reading both in English and then Chinese.

I base them, they go to bed, and this is when I will spend 30 minutes just in the bathroom, shower, do my skin routine, and then I will start my one hour long reading time, which since I was a child, that’s what I always do. And by 10 o’clock I’m, I’m going to bed. I’m a early sleeper, so by 10 o’clock I’m definitely at bed and nothing can wake me up unless one kid wakes up.

So yeah, that’s usually my day. 

Melissa: Oh, thank you for sharing. I love that. And what are you reading? Do you like reading fiction? Do read. Spiritual. Like what do you read? 

Jiaming: I read all genres and these days I am a fan of Scandinavian. No. Which is basically crime novels from Scandinavia translated into English. And actually there was, I can’t remember the name [00:56:00] actually, but there was a phase a few months ago when I was exclusively reading authors from Australia.

So it’s, it’s different every single time, but I’m more of a fiction and nonfiction person and you know, reading for an hour before I go to bed. And when I lived in New York or in Singapore with long commute on the train, I used to basically bring my book. So I will also read on the long commute to work back then in my economist days.

So it is always been the, the thing that never changes in my life reading. 

Melissa: Hmm. So good for you. I love it. I love it so much. I don’t get through them as quick as I would like because I read at nighttime with two little kids and after a couple of pages I am out gone. I’m asleep. My husband’s like, how do you do that so quickly?

It’s a gift. It is a gift. So I love that. Thank you for sharing all of that with us. I have three rapid fire questions for you now. Are you [00:57:00] ready? Oh god. 

Jiaming: Okay. Yes, I’m ready. 

Melissa: Okay. What is one thing that we can do today for our health? Take 

Jiaming: 10,000 steps a day on barefoot shoes. 

Melissa: Yes, I do that. I think I do more than 10,000 ’cause I take my kids in the pram every morning for a big, long walk and it’s uphill and downhill and it’s intense, but it’s good.

Okay. What is one thing we can do for more wealth in our life? Forgiveness. Beautiful. 

Jiaming: I think it’s very important in America. I think the mentality of being overachievers is written in the destiny for all of us in a way that people hold on to grudges and you keep wanting to have more. But sometimes actually, I think’s important for people to realize, to forgive is a way to get wealth so you are not overburdening yourself.

Because holding a grudge in Chinese medicine is the number one thing that will hurt your health. [00:58:00] Holding a GR takes a lot of qi, a lot of negative emotions. You wanna let go of that and therefore you’ll feel more expensive. So that’s, that’s wealth. 

Melissa: Yeah, I love that. There’s no point holding a grudge. Let it go.

It’s only hurting you. Let it go. Let it go. Let it go. Okay, last one. What is one thing we can do for more love in our life? This is a hard one. 

Jiaming: Empathy. I think it’s a hard one. In the stressful, crazy world we’re living, everyone is constantly, you are constantly saying, I’m in survival mode, but maybe take a second.

And although it’s hard, you know, ask your families, ask your friends what they’re doing if you haven’t heard from them. And because to be loved, you need to give love. It’s like what the Chinese say, we always say like, you know, in, in terms of gaining wealth, you have to spend money in order to gain money.

It’s, it is a thing we say in Chinese culture. So it’s the same thing with love. You have to be more empathetic. You [00:59:00] have to be even in the most difficult time, not just be self-centered and ask people around you how they’re doing. And then they will care for you in return. Mm. Yes. And do it without any expectations.

Right. And I think that’s really the most important thing and the hardest thing in life is to have no expectations when you put in the effort. It’s like a daily work, but it’s worth it. 

Melissa: Yes, and it’s so powerful to really give from that place of pure, unconditional love without any expectations. It’s powerful.

That’s the place you wanna get to and that’s the place you wanna give from. I love that. This has been so powerful, so amazing. I’ve absolutely loved this conversation. Is there anything else that you wanna share with us? 

Jiaming: No. If anybody wanna follow us and learn more magic about Chinese medicine, you can follow us on Instagram at KUN helps.

I’m told by my patients I’m very funny. But you will see I’m exactly [01:00:00] like this on the podcast with Melissa as I am. My name is Rem, and as I am as a practitioner, and it’s lovely talking to you. Thank you so much for making the time. 

Melissa: Oh, this has been so delightful. Thank you for all the work that you do.

It’s been really inspiring for me to get back into my regular. Chinese medicine sessions, I’ve gotta find someone at the moment then who can do it, because mine is on maternity leave. So you’ve really inspired me to get back into it again. So thank you so much. One last question. How can I serve you? You are helping, you are serving, you are supporting so many people.

So how can I and the listeners give back to you today? 

Jiaming: Oh, that is so kind. I think basically support Chinese medicine doctors near you. It is the oldest medicine in the world and I think what is important is for people to share feedback when you have been served well by the community. And yeah, just spread the [01:01:00] words.

That’s always the important thing. I don’t think Chinese medicine as medicine has been, I don’t think we have done enough of marketing. I don’t think that’s a thing in the field. So yeah, spread the word. It’s, it’s a, it’s a powerful medicine. It’s been around for the longest time for a reason, so.

Melissa: Absolutely. And if you have a positive experience, share it with the people around you. ’cause it’s super powerful. So thank you for sharing everything with us today. Thank you for the work that you’re doing in the world. This has been so inspiring for me. I’m going to book in a session and get back into that.

Especially, ’cause you know, I’m still postpartum. He’s eight months. I’m still postpartum. You know, I’m sure there could be some more blood building that can be done. 

Jiaming: Yeah. Lovely seeing 

Melissa: you. Thank you so much.

I really hope this episode has inspired you to explore traditional Chinese medicine. Go and find an incredible [01:02:00] practitioner, get some acupuncture, do the herbs, and take note on how you feel. Like we mentioned, it’s really important that you find someone who is really good and knows what they’re doing, so make sure that you have got a recommendation from someone.

You’ve done your research and you know that who you are seeing is a genius in their world. So I hope you loved this conversation. I hope it has opened you up to TCM. And if you loved it, please subscribe and follow the show and leave me a review on Apple Podcasts because that means that we can educate and inspire even more people together.

And if you do leave me a review, please send me an email with a screenshot of the review to hello@melissaambrosini.com. And I’m going to send you my wildly wealthy guided meditation as a thank you for taking the time to leave that review. Now come and follow me on Instagram at Melissa Ambrosini and tell me what you got from this episode.

Tell me if you already do TCM. Tell me your experience. I wanna hear from you. I wanna connect with [01:03:00] you. And before I go, I just wanted to say thank you so much for being here, for wanting to be the best, the healthiest, and the happiest version of yourself, and for showing up today for you, you rock. Now, if there’s someone in your life that you can think of that would really benefit from this episode, please share it with them right now.

You can take a screenshot, share it on your social media, email it to them, text it to them, do whatever you’ve got to do to get this in their ears. And until next time, don’t forget that love is sexy. Healthy is liberating, and wealthy isn’t a dirty word.

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